<p>this is why I love this program/site so much,it's UBER thought provoking!!! here's another inquiry that's intrigued me... I don't think Shaw is totally "turned"(remember Martine stated that it took months to break her)if so she would have given Sam/Greer ALL significant/noteworthy info on Team Machine(current identities,operations,location,etc)in essence,there wouldn't be a show,Finch,Reese & Root would all be dead/captured!!! </p>

In the real world both Harold and Greer couldn't exist outside the law and there would more than a thousand Controls.

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Spacebender wrote: </p><p>The Samaritan arc crescendoed as it tightened its grip on power and showed itself even more ruthless than the cruel and sadistic Control for whom I felt a pang of sympathy as she was led away in the black hood she had planned to use on Greer, who in describing the "Correction" across the nation (soon to be a broader realm) looked and sounded ever more like the "Emperor" after the slaughter of the Jedi across the galaxy.  If efficiency is what one values, if the end justifies the means, then one could certainly concede that Samaritan is more "effective" than the Machine -- in the way that dictators are unencumbered by any obligation to observe due process as they crush obstacles for the "greater good". </p> </i></div>
<p>This entire show is about disregarding due process, bending the law, and outright breaking the law. The US government -- certainly as portrayed on POI -- disregard due process one way or another when ever it interferes in the business of protecting the nation from relevant threats. Team Samaritan is an even more extreme case, and yet look how far they have come in just a year. The difference between Samaritan and dictators, however, is that Samaritan follows absolute logic rather than any kind of political ideology, which is always inherently biased one way or the other. As far as I can tell, Samaritan isn't trying to build a Nazi or Soviet kind of dictatorship over the world; yes, in the form of control, but not in the sense that it will lead to the mass persecution of entire peoples. On the contrary, Samaritan has left the vast majority of people alone, with the exception of subtly influencing their lives, mostly by protecting them from relevant threats while also improving their quality of life (as seen by the way it provides quality education to students in New York). </p><p>The Correction is limited to the barely visible minority that stands in the way of the betterment of humanity: the disrupters, the outliers, and the disloyal. I agree with you about Control being one of the most ruthless, cruel and sadistic characters I've seen on the show. I don't necessarily disagree with some of her reasoning (i.e. taking out terrorists to protect the United States), but I think she got her comeuppance when the black hood was pulled over her head. I don't think anyone can deny that New York is better off without someone like Dominic; while I can respect the brilliance he displayed, his criminal activities and war with Elias was only destabilizing the city, not helping it. As for Elias, he did seem to have some code of honor, but this is still the same guy who held Detective Carter's son hostage at one point, and was even willing to kill him. Elias has plenty of blood on his hands and a lot to answer for. Yes, in the end Samaritan resolved to eliminate him while ignoring due process, but I highly doubt that the majority of people would even care. The law is shown in this series to be ineffective when it comes to dealing with criminals, terrorists, and others who leave a path of destruction in their wake, with little to no regard for the bystanders who suffer because of their actions. </p><p>All in all, a big argument that this show seems to make is that no side is 100% in the right. They are all bending or breaking the law, working around due process or discarding it entirely, for the sake of the greater good. Even Team Machine is composed of vigilantes who come from highly dubious backgrounds. Samaritan is the only one I've seen that does not want to cope with existing in a broken world with virtually endless flaws. It is choosing order over chaos, believing that humanity as a whole will be better off for it in the end. <i>Wars have burned in this world for centuries with no end in sight because people believe so ardently on their so-called </i>"beliefs." If Samaritan has its way, it will rule the world -- but from the shadows. It has shown no interest in revealing itself to the public, probably because real power comes from what is unseen and unknown. In Samaritan's world, the vast majority of people will go on with their lives, unaware of the "big brother" watching over them, but at least it will be in an era of unprecedented peace and stability as Samaritan envisions. That sounds like a fair trade for the world we live in today. </p>

<p>"<i>Wars have burned in this world for thousands of years with no end in sight because people rely so ardently on their so-called </i>beliefs." That's the right quote. Sorry, I hate messing up quotes. </p>

<p>I guess I really shouldn't be surprised by the ending. Team Machine didn't really do much in the way of mounting an offensive against Samaritan this season, so I didn't really have high hopes that the Machine's evil twin would be defeated by the end of the season. </p><p>I can't believe how emotional I felt as the Machine was speaking to Harold in its possible last moments. I never thought I'd feel such emotions for a faceless program. </p><p>So now the roles have been switched, where the team now has to protect the Machine in its weakened state. I hope next season brings about the fall of Samaritan, because ideally from a narrative view, it makes sense. </p>

<div class="quote"><i>Magic713 wrote:
<p>So now the roles have been switched, where the team now has to protect the Machine in its weakened state. I hope next season brings about the fall of Samaritan, because ideally from a narrative view, it makes sense. </p> </i></div>
<p>And then what? Go back to dealing with numbers on a case by case basis... Seems rather repetitive to me. It was a great formula for the first two seasons, and it is still used in seasons 3 & 4 -- albeit in a secondary capacity since the start of the Samaritan arc. To me, there is no going back to the way things were before the Machine had to deal with a rival ASI. Samaritan is the ultimate foil to the Machine, so much that it is difficult to imagine a more interesting or challenging foe other than the creation of yet another ASI, but that would also be repetitive.
</p><p>It seems to me that fans generally hoped Samaritan would be defeated by the end of season 4. The war between the Machine and Samaritan, like virtually any war story, cannot be effectively concluded in just a handful of episodes or even an entire season. A war should span across multiple seasons in order to tell a good, compelling story. I know some people are disappointed with how the Samaritan arc has played out, and would even prefer to just go back to the old "deal with the numbers" style in season 1, but I have to respectfully disagree. IMO the Samaritan arc is one of the better storylines they've come up with. With the Machine (and prior to the introduction of Samaritan), it sometimes seemed as though Team Machine was almost invincible. Yes, they had some close calls and a few casualties (i.e. Carter), but I never really got that sense of the "inevitable end" as Finch warned Reese when he said that they'd both eventually end up dead -- "really dead this time" -- because of the work they're involved in. That is until Samaritan came along. What I hope to see is this war develop with new and even more interesting stories, possibly up to the series conclusion. Although that might be too long for some, I think it's certainly doable. </p><p>I have no doubt that the Machine will be rebuilt at some point in the next season; Nolan all but confirmed it in one of his most recent interviews. The catch is, and TheSamaritanUKnow brought this up, will it still be the same machine as before? You know, the one with the moral code -- or will it be something else, something more like Samaritan or one of the 42 unstable versions that preceded Finch's 43rd iteration of the Machine? I think it would be fascinating to see Finch and Root's attempt to rebuild the Machine ultimately backfire on them. In which case, they would have to contend with two ASIs, neither one inhibited by morality. It would also be interesting to see the tream come to the conclusion that the world is just not ready for ASIs, and therefore they would resolve to somehow rid the Earth of both the Machine and Samaritan, which could also potentially condemn humanity to a virtually inevitable process of self-destruction. While all of that is just a theory so far, I am looking forward to seeing how the team copes in a Samaritan-ruled world without the Machine to watch over them. Finch and his allies became way too acustomed to the Machine having their backs, and now Samaritan has just torn away their security blanket. I'll admit that I might be underestimating them, but without the Machine they just seem more helpless than ever before. </p>

<p>from the 1987 film The Untouchables... Malone: you said you wanted to get Capone.do you really wanna get him? you see what I'am saying is,what are you prepared to do? Ness: anything within the law. Malone: you wanna know how to get Capone? they pull a knife,you pull a gun.he sends one of yours to the hospital,you send one of his to the morgue!!! that's the Chicago Way!!! and that's how you get Capone... in other words,Finch/Team Machine,as Root said "get in the game!!!" the NEW version of the Machine had better have a set!!! </p>

<p>Just watching now, and have only checked that there was no mention of this above. But the view through the elevator hole was silly and unrealistic. Looking out through the hole, the view into the room goes lower as the elevator descends. This is silly for two reasons, if you know how elevators work: the elevator doors don't actually descend. YOU know this, because the doors are always there when you press the button. The CAR descends, not the doors, so you'd never see the change in perspective in the camera shot. The outer doors stay put. </p><p>The second reason is that, as I understand, elevator doors have an inside pair connected to car (which is why you don't see the shaft as you rise or descend) as well as the outer doors which stay put on the floor. The two pairs seem like they're one pair when they arrive at a floor because the inner pair and the outer pair unite at a floor. So, aside from the issue of the change in perspective, you'd never SEE a continuous hole as the car shifts: not from the outside looking in, not from the inside looking out. Looking out, you would see the holes on the inner doors moving past unmoving surfaces. </p><p>As much as I'd like to close this with a joke about elevators, the only one I know of makes fun of the Amish and assumes they are ignorant of technology. </p>

<p>This was such a fantastic finale! It really blew my mind! From the culmination of things past to The Machine hiding in the power grid! Such a brilliant move! I loved it that they used things from other episodes in the past, such as the compression algorithm from 2piR and the briefcase! The Machine always knew it would come down to this! It just makes the show feel more coherant too when the writers use things from previous seasons even: like they have had a plan all along, though they may have not! I can't wait, bring on season 5! </p><p>I must say, I am surprised by all the Samaritan sympathizers posting comments about it on here. I mean, yes, perhaps the world does need some intervention, but killing people because they are a nuisance to society is a fine line to walk. Who is worthy enough to define who is a nuisance and who is not? Samaritan surely isn't because it'll kill people just to remain a secret or for its own experiments. I suppose when it comes to that it is better if society decides as a whole who is and isn't, which isn't always the best either, but it's why we have due process, however broken it may be. </p>

<p>This was such a fantastic finale! It really blew my mind! From the culmination of things past to The Machine hiding in the power grid! Such a brilliant move! I loved it that they used things from other episodes in the past, such as the compression algorithm from 2piR and the briefcase! The Machine always knew it would come down to this! It just makes the show feel more coherant too when the writers use things from previous seasons even: like they have had a plan all along, though they may have not! I can't wait, bring on season 5! </p><p>I must say, I am surprised by all the Samaritan sympathizers posting comments about it on here. I mean, yes, perhaps the world does need some intervention, but killing people because they are a nuisance to society is a fine line to walk. Who is worthy enough to define who is a nuisance and who is not? Samaritan surely isn't because it'll kill people just to remain a secret or for its own experiments. I suppose when it comes to that it is better if society decides as a whole who is and isn't, which isn't always the best either, but it's why we have due process, however broken it may be. </p><p>
</p><p>Sorry, last post was me not logged in. If a mod could remove that, I'd be grateful! </p>