Talk: The Machine

Identifier Icons

It has been my experience that the identifier icons are incorrect. I have noted that the white icons only appear to identify the people who may at some time be involved in a predicted event, however I can't cite anything other than the fact that the white icons are not placed on every person. The yellow icons also appear to identify its 'Assets', not just everyon with knowledge of The Machine.70.169.31.160 02:22, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

In case of Reese, he's been informed extensively by Finch about the Machine, what it does and how Finch gets his SSNs, i.e. how he knows something bad will happen to certain people. Perhaps it's the nature of the Machine to learn about humans and the human nature, and as a result it has been 'studying' Reese for some time before acknowledging that he is working for Finch and that he knows about the Machine. Apart from that, the contingency Finch installed also enabled Reese to access the SSNs as well, when Finch was abducted by Root. Maybe it's related? Logan Nugov (talk) 09:13, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

The yellow also appears around Root. I doubt she is one if its assets. When it detects that Carter is in trouble in Zero Day, it indicates she is an asset when it calls Finch. I doubt we are 100% correct in saying yellow simply means someone knows about the machine, but I think we are fairly close. Alanzer (talk) 17:54, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

The Machine indicates that Carter is an asset.

The Machine doesn't have assets, per se. Conventional wisdom is that the yellow box signifies someone who knows about the Machine, which is why Turing had a white box, but Root has a yellow one (that and a desire by the writers not to telegraph who Turing actually was.) Right now, I don't think we can trust the boxes, given the progress of the virus. It might be wiser to leave things as they are until the show clarifies Carter's status further, if indeed she had a yellow box (and I don't recall her having one.) Threat to asset simply means the Machine recognizes Carter as something along the lines of someone working with Finch, or working against an identified threat. --LeverageGuru (talk) 18:20, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

About Samantha Shaw: as she was part of Intelligence Support Activity, the programme that is responsible for processing the 'relevant list' that the Machine produces, she's assigned with the indigo (blue) box, and has remained so throughout Zero Day. But yes, she began to understand that the SSNs that the relevant list provided did not come from a section named 'Research', but from the dark and secretive entity that is The Machine (which Finch crypticallly refers to as 'working for the same entitity'), it's fair to believe that she now knows about the Machine, which should give her the yellow box, but she's still seen as ISA by the Machine (indigo), responsible for processing its relevant list in the first place. But like LeverageGuru mentioned: we can't trust the Machine that is now 'in extremis', as it is heavily corrupted by the virus. We'll have to see what comes next, and what changes. Logan Nugov (talk) 22:15, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

It's quite a leap from Shaw having some suspicions about who or what Research is to the assumption she knows about the Machine. She appears to be following John and Finch either to figure out what they're up to or to get to Root, but we can't even be sure which. As for the blue box: we know blue indicates something to do with the relevant list, but not enough to be sure precisely what. My rule: if it hasn't happened on camera, don't assume. --LeverageGuru (talk) 06:36, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

It's now on camera. In the previews of God Mode, Reese and Shaw are talking about The Machine. Pkeets (talk) 06:47, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

Not necessarily. Previews can be very misleading. I'll believe it one I see the full episode. --LeverageGuru (talk) 07:15, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

Shaw is now assigned the yellow box, after Reese finds Finch's glasses and 'talks' to the Machine through a security camera. The Machine (through the camera) now regards Shaw as an equal to Reese, and no longer ISA. I can't give you a screenshot, but I think you'll see when you've seen the full episode.

(also: I had entered some far-fetched theory about the yellow boxes, but reading other inputs, I've decided to delete it, because it would not make sense. Sorry! Logan Nugov (talk) 11:00, May 10, 2013 (UTC))

Mistake

In About section: "Finch therefore left himself a backdoor to the Machine in order to access the irrelevant list." This isn't correct, is it? We do not yet have enough evidence to understand what the Backdoor (or Contigency) program is or was, and moreover, it was Nathan Ingram, not Finch, that created the "backdoor." Please fix. 86.2.38.8 18:16, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

For instance, it was Nathan who built the backdoor into the Machine, because he couldn't cope with the crimes the people in the irrelevant list were about to be involved in. Other than having to witness lives lost that could have been prevented, he did not want to be responsible for deaths that are predicted by the Machine, but left 'to their own devices'. Finch was disgusted by this idea at first, saying that it was not their task to 'play God', and so he disabled the backdoor. But I think it was after Nathan's death (as predicted by the Machine: his name popped up in the irrelevant list) in which Finch was involved in as well (the bombing at the ferry dock, which left Finch with a limp and permanent neck injury) that he began to realise that the irrelevant list was as important as the relevant list. And probably then, he decided to reinstate that backdoor. Remember how Finch has got to Reese in that hospital where Jessica used to work (although he nearly missed him) in Many Happy Returns, meaning he was already receiving SSNs, so the backdoor had been reinstated by Finch himself. Logan Nugov (talk) 09:00, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

Finch does say he built the backdoor. However, it looks like Nathan may have done it. Did both of them? Unclear, since there is a contradictin in what they've said. —This unsigned comment was made by Pkeets (talk • contribs) . Please sign talk pages and forum posts with four tildes: ~~~~. Log in to keep track of your comments and maintain your identity on the wiki.

We have to remember that there are two things Ingram added: the Contingency routine, and a back door that generates the irrelevant list.  I don't know how anyone else feels, but I'm not satisfied that we really know what Ingram's original Contingency is.  It could be the routine that keeps the irrelevent list coming in the absence of ADMIN (in other words, Reese) or it could be the routine that generated the irrelevant list.  We've seen evidence it could be either.

Given Finch removed the back door and Ingram's access to the irrelevant list, it would seem that at some point later, he reinstated it. But that's all speculation until the show tells us, which I would expect it will do either in the finale or more likely, in the third season opener. Finch is going to have a lot of explaining to do to Reese once the whole truth gets out. --LeverageGuru (talk) 15:21, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

There's now a repeat of the Thornhill information. Could someone edit that to make it flow a little smoother? —This unsigned comment was made by Pkeets (talk • contribs) . Please sign talk pages and forum posts with four tildes: ~~~~. Log in to keep track of your comments and maintain your identity on the wiki.

I'll take care of it. PKeets, please use the signature button above to sign your posts. These discussions can be very hard to follow it posts are unsigned. --LeverageGuru (talk) 18:20, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

I thought the contingency was something related to the fact that the machine is able to decide which action to take if its normal routine is altered (I don't know, that's probably not true, but considering how the machine chooses to help Reese find Finch and also the name of the episode "The Contingency", I thought all that stuff was related somehow). But there's much more to the story than what I thought before (in the season opener), I'm dying to see the finale, such high expectations... ~Playsonic2 22:07, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

I agree. But it's all still ambiguous, and complicated enough we can't be completely sure. --LeverageGuru (talk) 23:25, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

In conclusions of the flashbacks of Finch and Ingram in God Mode  we see that Finch reinstated the backdoor just a minute before the irrelevant dat would be deleted (midnight). The same backdoor Finch had removed for Nathan to access, but not knowing that he would be the victim of the circumstances that had led to reinstating the backdoor (and Nathan's death). Logan Nugov (talk) 11:52, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Old Footage And Retroactive Tagging

I don't think that it is correct that The Machine assigns boxes based on the target's current status when it reviews old footage. Or at least, it does not do so consistently. Reese is marked with a yellow box in current footage, with the proposed logic that this indicates he knows about The Machine. However, he specifically was marked as a threat to The Machine (which he had no knowledge of) while he was in Ordos. If The Machine already "knows" him and marks targets retroactively, then it should be flagging him with the yellow box. His partner is also flagged as a threat, even though she may already have known of The Machine (she shoots a wounded man after he mentions it, and deliberately omits this reference when Reese inquires what the man said) and appears to know of it by the present day. It began to classify Ingam as a threat when he began to ask questions about The Machine, yet he is not red-boxed before that point.  Atypicaloracle (talk) 08:31, June 4, 2013 (UTC)

Suggestion

I just read this:

"Denton Weeks contracted with Nathan Ingram for his company to develop the technology behind the Machine and the construction of the physical system. Ingram secretly brought Finch into the process as he was not personally capable of completing the project on his own. Finch's identity and participation was known only to Ingram."

Is that so, did not Finch and Nathan own IFT togethere, scale it down to work on the machine, but was finch just never in the spotlight? Jasperwillem (talk) 01:38, March 6, 2014 (UTC)

This is a copy fromt the IFT wikia site:

" IFT approached the United States government to build the Machine, a large computer capable of investigating and reporting potential terrorist threats by delving into people's private lives. Ingram had downsized the company substantially, and let Finch handle the logistics of the Machine while he collected awards and dealt with the government's liaison Alicia Corwin.^{(“Ghosts”) (“Number Crunch”)} Jasperwillem (talk) 01:44, March 6, 2014 (UTC)

Status of the Machine

Now that Season 3 is over and with the events that happened in the last episode with Harold, Reese, Shaw and Root going underground should we change the status to unknown in the meantime until we know more? Bootkiller (talk) 11:26, June 8, 2014 (UTC)

I'm quite certain that the Machine is still active. It's hard to know how the team will interact with it and act on its directives, but there was nothing in "Deus Ex Machina" that would make me think that the Machine was shut down or stopped functioning in any way. SmokyBirch (talk) 20:00, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

We saw nothing to suggest the Machine was shut down, just that Finch destroyed whatever computer files he had in the Library. Moreover, Root refers to it giving her a message for Finch, which suggests she's still in communication with it. We have to assume it's active until we know something more definite. --LeverageGuru (talk) 20:39, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

The Machine's Gender

The machine doesn't have any inherent gender of its own but a Fan video I came across(of the machine and Samaritan making out) really irked me enough to make this post.

Now we all have seen Root calling The Machine a "She" or "Mom", but Finch doesn't, in fact he finds Root's choice of pronoun intriguing (forgot the episode but he clearly says so, I think it's after she breaks out of the psych ward.)

Finch calls The Machine a "He" or "It" at most. Finch prefers the neutral "It" but flashbacks to when he was going to start college and while he was hacking the Arpanet from his father's (with Alzheimer) home, calling The Machine's ideological prototype "a little guy" or how he calls The Machine a "he" around the time of his swap with Grace. or when he is talking to Greer about The Machine. The Machine seems to collaborate with this in its choice of Ernest Thornhill as an alias.

So does The Machine see itself as a boy , and is it just letting Root call it a girl because it doesn't really care? I've always seen the Machine as a boy(projecting myself onto it, and thinking of it as myself) similar to how all people might project their own gender on non animate things they like.

Root's choice of pronoun originates from Amy Acker's interview where she jokingly called it "Sally" unsure on its gender.

Whom should The Machine's gender be chosen according to Finch(thinks of it mostly masculine) who made it, Root (definitely feminine) or The Machine (most likely masculine but not truly known, Ernest Thornhill could just be out of convenience) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.75.148.122 (talk • contribs)

Finch refers to the Machine as "the Machine". He seldom uses "it" and never, ever, "he". The Machine is an inanimate object, and to whatever degree Finch communicates with it, he always addresses it accordingly. Moreover, it's ludicrous to think the Machine sees itself as having a gender. We only know what's on screen; if it didn't happen there, it didn't happen. We've never seen any suggestion that the Machine believes it has a gender. Earnest Thornhill is simply a business-like name; don't read too much into this stuff.

The use of the feminine is Root's affectation, possibly originating with the Machine's use of a female voice when addressing her, or possibly simply her own gender preference. Gender is meaningless to the Machine within its own context. It isn't sentient, it isn't human, gender adds nothing, and it can't make decisions regarding assigning human characteristics to itself; that's not part of its programming.

Please sign your posts when you finish them, using the signature button at the top of the screen or four tildes. --LeverageGuru (talk) 18:19, June 29, 2014 (UTC)

Gallery

Why is there no gallery for The Machine? I know that there's the MPOV gallery, and another gallery devoted solely to The Machines designations, why haven't they been added?? Deviant Interface (talk) 17:56, May 28, 2015 (UTC)

Security camera footage font

While the trivia section indicates the font used in timestamps and labels in the security camera feeds is unknown, it seems (per this reddit post : https://www.reddit.com/r/identifythisfont/comments/2sfrnw/person_of_interest_interface_fonts/cnp585q) the font used is Apple II.

88.125.212.66 12:10, May 20, 2016 (UTC)

Nice find, thank you! --p‑t‑x (talk) 12:56, May 20, 2016 (UTC)

Unlocking

Needs to be unlocked to update the latest information.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 05:02, June 22, 2016 (UTC)

Updating

Certain parts need to be updated like the Access section. There it says its not clear if the Machine is self-aware but the last few episodes make it pretty clear that it is or at least that it becomes so.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 03:19, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

You should be able to update the article now. --p‑t‑x (talk) 19:24, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. I've recently started watching the series on Netflix after watching the final few episodes with my parents. Hence all the updates I'm making.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 19:55, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

Appearance in Root's form

Its unclear if anyone actually saw the Machine in Root's form when it interacted with Reese and Finch. If you look closely, when Finch talks to it, he never looks directly at the image and when Reese looks at Finch's building, there's no sign of the Machine even as it speaks in his earpiece. Also, after the Machine says "goodbye Harold", when he looks back, the Machine's image is not there anymore though it could've moved to John's building. John also doesn't acknowledge the image when it stands with him against Samaritan. Its clearly supposed to be there given the expressions and everything, but its just not clear if its visible or not.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 20:14, June 30, 2016 (UTC)

Change that: Finch looks directly at her when she first appears.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 03:27, August 10, 2016 (UTC)

Contingency Function

When paused on the laptop screen in Zero Day, you can see that Finch tried to delete and then remove the function but failed. He then deleted Ingram's access and suspended it instead.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 03:25, August 10, 2016 (UTC)

Profile picture

I would like to add a picture about The Machine as seen in 1x01 - like the image I found in the gallery. Because the image that is currently used is the infobox is when it is seen as "Machine 2.0". But is it possible to modify the template to make these two image co-exist? - Oganesson (talk) 00:35, February 13, 2017 (UTC)